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The Redeeming the Dirt Podcast
The Redeeming the Dirt Podcast
Multiplying Discipleship through Land Stewardship with Curtis Sergeant
Step into the rich soil of discipleship as we explore the profound connections between farming and the Great Commission with Curtis Sergeant, a discipleship multiplication expert whose methods have catalyzed movements resulting in millions of believers and churches worldwide.
Curtis shares his remarkable journey from an unreached island in China to establishing a training center that has equipped disciple-makers in 174 countries. The key? A simple, reproducible approach that mirrors agricultural principles—where multiplication is the natural outcome of healthy growth.
For those called to agriculture, this conversation reveals that your vocation isn't separate from discipleship but divinely designed for it. Genesis shows us that tending the earth was God's original intention for humanity before the Fall. Every agricultural principle—sowing and reaping, pruning for growth, patience in waiting for harvest, dependence on God for rain—parallels spiritual truths that make the gospel tangible and visible.
The "three-thirds process" Curtis teaches focuses on obedience rather than mere knowledge, equipping believers to spiritually self-feed, foster authentic community, and pass these skills to others through a training cycle of modeling, assisting, watching, and leaving. This approach has proven effective across cultures and contexts.
Whether you're a professional farmer, homesteader, or backyard gardener, your agricultural calling provides unique opportunities to demonstrate the gospel holistically by addressing our broken relationships with God, self, others, and creation. As you steward the land, you're positioned to steward souls as well, participating in both temporal and eternal harvests.
Ready to see your farm or garden become fertile ground for discipleship? Discover practical tools and approaches that will help you integrate the Great Commission into your agricultural calling. The fields truly are white for harvest—in more ways than one.
Key Take-aways:
• Discipleship means teaching obedience to Christ's commands, not just sharing information
• The "three-thirds process" focuses on accountability, hearing from God, and application
• Agriculture is a divine calling established before the Fall, not just a profession
• Farming provides natural illustrations of spiritual principles like sowing, reaping, and patience
• Effective disciple-making requires multiplication, just as seeds produce abundant harvests
• Sharing the gospel with farmers can begin with the Garden of Eden narrative
• Agricultural stewardship helps restore our broken relationship with creation
• Simple tools like Zume training and The Only One book can equip anyone to make disciples
Check out Curtis's resources at TheOnlyOneBook.com, Zume.training, and ObeyGC2.com to learn more about multiplying discipleship in your context.
To access the after-show join Redeeming the Dirt Academy! www.redeemingthedirtacademy.com
Welcome to the Redeeming the Dirt podcast. My name is Noah Sanders and I'm glad to be back with you today. We have an exciting topic today. We're going to be talking about discipleship and making disciples as farmers, homesteaders, gardeners Any of us who follow Jesus are hopefully familiar with the great commission that Jesus gave in Matthew 28, right before he went into heaven. And it says in Matthew 28, starting in 18, Jesus said to them All authority in heaven and on earth have been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you, and surely I'm with you always, to the very end of the age. And we love this passage and it's easy to think about applying that in terms of you know, missionaries going to share the gospel and those kind of things. But it can be sometimes challenging to think about how we can apply that when we're called to something like farming or homesteading or where we're living a life of stewarding the land and we're trying to think about here.
Speaker 1:I am out by myself in my garlic patch working today. How am I making disciples? How can I use the context that I'm in to be able to bring the hope of Jesus to the nations, and today I'm really blessed to have a guest on to talk about this, a good friend of mine and mentor, Curtis Sargent. He is a leader in kind of the world of multiplying discipleship, has worked over the years with the International Mission Board and many other ministries and organizations. His work has really helped catalyze the planting of millions of house churches around the world, and a lot of my thinking about disciple making and the things that we do through our ministry have been highly impacted by what God's done through him. I quote him a lot as we're mentoring and having discussions with the different people that we're training, and I really appreciate Curtis because he really makes discipleship practical and simple, makes discipleship practical and simple and yet it's something that we've seen around the world.
Speaker 1:God has really used to produce a lot of fruit, so really grateful to have him on here today. He actually lives fairly local to me and has had some experience in agriculture. So, Curtis, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really glad to be with you. Noah Curtis, can you tell us briefly what has been your experience in agriculture? I know we'll talk a lot about discipleship, but you have had your hands in the dirt as well, growing things. What kind of things have you done in the past?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually not a lot. Yeah, actually not a lot. Personally, we do try to grow as much of our own food as we can for our little training center here and I have, you know, worked with others who are professional farmers in terms of helping them figure out how to make disciples, but I've never made my primary vocation farming, so I'm not on the level of a lot of your listeners.
Speaker 1:Say probably you relate to more than you probably realize. I'd say probably you relate to more than you probably realize because a lot of the real movement in the US right now is amongst what we would call homesteading. A lot of people are really interested in how do they grow their own food, not so much professionally, not just as a hobby, but really as kind of on the level that you're looking at, and so probably a lot of our listeners today would fit in that category. But it's great to hopefully it's encouraging to you guys to hear that even as we talk about disciple making today, curtis is definitely in a place that a lot of us are and can think from that perspective. So can you just tell us briefly, curtis, a few of the other things that you're involved in right now, what is, what is kind of the work that you're doing, and then we'll get into a little bit of of talking about what is discipleship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, um, I'm just in the middle of kind of making a big shift. Pretty much my entire life up to this point has been focused on the places where the gospel is least accessible right, the people who haven't had a chance to hear the gospel and seeking to get, you know, disciples made and churches planted in those places. But just recently, as in the last couple of months, we've really been feeling the Lord leading us to focus some more on getting some resources available for working with children and then also working on just getting disciple making resources available in more languages. So, you know, the one of our online efforts up to this point has been a zoom a, and it's been available in 40 plus languages, and now I'm trying to work on getting materials available in 40 plus languages. Right now I'm trying to work on getting materials available in more like 130 some languages, and so right now I'm spending a lot of time in front of the computer trying to get some of that work done.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, father of eight, seven, eight, a few weeks ago, um, the, the focus that god's given you on helping equip, equip kids is, um, really near and dear to my heart and I'm really grateful that you're working on that because I think that's, um, if the church could get, could be faithful in that, it would have a huge impact, even if we didn't reach anybody else. But it's almost an unreached people group in some ways is the kids of the church, and so I'm really grateful that you're working on that. We'll share some of your links and stuff in the show notes so hopefully we'll be able to touch base on what are some of those things places people can go and get some of your resources afterwards, but really grateful for what God's doing right now in your life. So I just read the Great Commission just a few minutes ago.
Speaker 1:I know that that's a verse near and dear to your heart, but for those of us that don't come from a disciple-making background are maybe not as familiar with what that looks like. What is it that Jesus means when he says to make disciples? When we're commanded, he says go and make disciples of all nations. What is that exactly? Is that evangelism? Is that like. Give us a picture of in your mind what it looks like to fulfill that command to make disciples.
Speaker 2:It's actually those very verses have sort of the shorthand description of what Jesus means In the original language. There's only one imperative you know or command verb in that, and it is make disciples. And the rest of it sort of describes what that looks like, right, so kind of as you're going, you're to be doing this and then you're to do it by baptizing them in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey all that he commanded. So in a sense I think a lot of times when we read those verses the first thing that grabs our attention is whoa, every place, every, you know, all over the world. And we don't hear anything after that.
Speaker 2:But I think he's giving us instructions on, you know how to think about it, and it's not just teaching them all he commanded, it's teaching them to obey. And so that implies that gives us some handles in a sense. That gives us some handles in a sense so that we have an idea what to focus on and then how we equip people in that, because that implies some accountability and, you know, course corrections and just it's constant interaction. It's not a one and done kind of a thing, it's a lifetime pursuit, you know, sort of a journey of coming to know him better, understand his intentions and desires better, and then can form our lives.
Speaker 1:You know to uh pursuing that I think a lot of us would probably acknowledge that the Great Commission was not just given to people in professional ministry, but it applies to all followers of Jesus. But would you agree that this is something that every Christian is called to do and can do?
Speaker 2:Christian is called to do and can do. Yes, the way I think about it is that the command in that Great Commission applies equally, as the promise does, so you know if we see his promise I will be with you always, to the very end of the age. If we believe that is to all of us as his followers, then we need to recognize the command to make disciples is also on all of us, and I think that's a pretty critical thing to recognize. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We definitely want Jesus to be with us to the end of the age, so I think we would agree with you on that. So can you tell me a little bit of the story of how god kind of helped you develop some of your ideas and unique tools on making disciples that have been so impactful around the world? Because obviously you probably didn't start off with kind of the perspective that you've developed and been training other people in. So what's a bit of the story of how God led you to develop this kind of your perspective and journey over these years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really it was a matter of desperation.
Speaker 2:So my wife and I felt called to serve among a really unreached group in China and they lived on an island actually, and there was virtually no gospel available because their language was different, the governmental restrictions to try to prevent really Christianity really taking root, and just a lot of historical and geographic factors made them really unreached.
Speaker 2:So we got there and we were just overwhelmed, honestly, at the scale and scope of what we thought God's intention was and how that just seemed completely incongruous with our capability or capacity. And so the short version is we recognize the only way, that only way that you know we could see for that people group to come to know and love the Lord, was multiplication, right, very much like in agriculture. Right, the resources are in the harvest, that's the. You know the same way he multiplies through seed. You know that's how it was going to have to work in terms of the spiritual harvest. And so we began kind of by, in some senses, trial and error and just going back to you know, some biblical principles and figuring out how to see disciples multiply. And that was the context in which we really developed a lot of these approaches.
Speaker 1:Context in which we really developed a lot of these approaches. So could you just go maybe a little bit more in depth on what was it, some of the things that you discovered and kind of how that, the story of then, what kind of impact that ended up having in that context?
Speaker 2:Yep. So one factor was what we just talked about in the great commission, that it's not just teaching them his commands, it's teaching them to obey his commands, and so we started really implementing. Anytime new truths were shared that there were it was we led them to listen to the Lord, to see what he was asking of them in practical, measurable terms, and then checking back with them how had things gone in relation to those specific applications. So it's what we now call a three-thirds process, kind of look back, look up, look forward. So we look back to see how we've done in, you know, applying what we learned. We look up to the Lord to get more input, more direction, more guidance, and then look forward to determine how he wants us to implement in terms of applying things to our own lives and in passing those things on to other people. Right, because that's part of the application is not only doing it but sharing it. And so that was one aspect. Another was just helping people develop an awareness of, in a sense, where the gospel isn't, and so when we pray in the Lord's Prayer, one of the phrases is Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Right, so helping them recognize what are the gaps between current reality, current situation and God's intention, and that we then seek to live into that gap right and to pray for him to help close that gap. That focus on seeing his will done on earth as it is in heaven is an aspect.
Speaker 2:Then there's a big emphasis on equipping people not just to be spiritual consumers but to also be spiritual producers, and so we focused on some specific areas. One is interpreting and applying scripture, and this can be done even with non-literate people, especially today. It's much easier because so many languages have audio scripture available, and even in very remote areas all over the world. Now lots of people have access to phones. It doesn't have to be a smartphone, it can just be a function phone, because they can all play MP3s and all that now, and so people have. You know, many people have access to scripture almost everybody, at least in a trade language.
Speaker 1:We just this morning even I recently bought one of those. I don't like sending the kids with phones all the time, so we bought just a very basic audio Bible that they can go forward and back, and so now, while they're looking at their little picture book Bible, they can sit on the couch and listen to the story of Jonah or some Psalmsms or Proverbs, and then we can. So they're actually consuming real scripture even before they are able to, you know, read or those kinds of things. So it's a huge, huge resort. I do a lot of my book scripture consumption right now while I'm milking the cow, and then I'll do my soaps kind of in-depth study when I'm sitting down.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we don't really have any excuse for not consuming scripture like other generations have for sure, yeah, and so helping people understand, first, that listening to God is just as much a part of prayer as speaking to God and trying to help people get in tune with, uh, in a sense, just living in an aware living, with an awareness of his presence, continually, you know, asking for his guidance, for his direction, for his you know thoughts, his instructions, his heart as an attitude, and even in focused you know times of prayer, not just the kind of lifestyle prayer, but even in focused prayer, spending some time just listening. You know to what he wants to tell us. And then also just the many aspects and uses of prayer. You know Jesus uses prayer as a teaching tool. And then there's obviously the different things, whether it's praise, thanksgiving, their practice of prayer. All of those things is a second emphasis on the self-feeding. And the third one would be what I call body life, that God, when we relate to God, it's not just that. Okay, now God is our father, but we also have now a lot of siblings, spiritually speaking, and that that's a significant part of living out our faith and how he designed us as a body, with each one having different spiritual gifts and abilities, and you know passions and how. That is not intended for us to be in competition, but that's intended for us to recognize our need for one another in our interdependence in serving him together, our interdependence in serving him together. And so there are different ways that we approach helping everyone understand that and practice it.
Speaker 2:And then, lastly, the last major area that we focus on, the self-feeding idea, is through persecution and suffering. So there are lots of ways that God intends to equip us, grow us, refine us. You know all of these things through difficulty, but it doesn't automatically happen. It is necessary for us to respond well in order to gain the benefits that he intends. So we spend time focused on helping people be aware of that, so that they can and will respond well to that, that suffering, and you know and thereby grow through it, rather than kind of being beaten down by it.
Speaker 2:And then the last sort of big area of focus, in a sense, is is kind of the, in my mind at least, is the most complicated, and it is helping us understand how to generationally pass on all of these truths, not just in our physical families but in the spiritual families.
Speaker 2:And so I sort of focus on a particular way of thinking about it that I call the training cycle, which is pretty familiar, and you know I certainly didn't develop it but the idea of we model for someone, then we help them to do whatever it is, and then we're watching them to make sure they're doing it well and that they're improving and, you know, becoming more expert not only in doing it but in passing it on, and then ultimately they don't need us anymore for that particular topic or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And so, helping them realize every little aspect of disciple making, we need to be taking responsibility to see that that process happens. In regard to you know a whole variety of different. You know tools or skills or principles, and that is, you know a lot more art than science, and most of us don't have good instincts on how and when to make those transitions most effectively, and so on. So, but that is a key part, I think, of maximizing our fruit in a sense, because that's God's desire, both more fruit and better fruit, and doing that training cycle well has a big impact on both of those.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because this whole training cycle of like multiplication passing on, you know, we see this obviously, the importance of this in spiritual growth and those kind of things. But you know, in agriculture today we have one of the big, big issues is that we don't have a new generation of farmers coming up in the professional field especially. We have a lot of young people kind of in the homestead or backyard, you know kind of scale. But it's one of the biggest challenges for existing commercial farmers is they don't have any of their kids, they want to do it. The skill is not being passed on and it's easy to get so wrapped up in the doing and even in parenting. You know, just in passing, on our faith, like you said, it's all these steps of modeling and then helping and then watching them do it and then letting them leave. There's so many problems if we don't do those different things. You know, if we're not modeling what we want them to be doing or if we're not letting them leave when they've got it, you know, or those kinds of things, is we see definitely consequences to not doing that way. And I think I'll read this second Timothy 2, 2, which is, I think, relates, is what talks about this, where Paul says, and the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses and trust reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. So, rather than this addition to the most qualified person, it's multiplication out to faithful people, and this is not just something we want to see in discipleship, but in families, and especially is really needed right now in agriculture in particular.
Speaker 1:But you talked about this island that God put you on in China, that God started this kind of teaching you these things. What kind of impact have you seen, did you see there, as a result of applying some of these principles in the work that you were doing, in a task that before had seemed quite overwhelming?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so today there are about a million believers there, which is, up from you know, less than 100 when we started, and that's out of a population of about 8 million now. So a lot of progress was made and, of course, most of that progress was made after we left, as the believers there continued to practice these things and continued. Um, interestingly, just last year a guy named paul haddaway wrote a book about the spiritual history of that island and it's called hainan, and so if you want to kind of read what that looked like, you can get a book on that.
Speaker 1:So how long were you there? And then, once you started, kind of you went from there, I think, to begin to teach some of these principles to other people. What kind of impact has that had in other ministries and other places than just that particular context?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we focused exclusively on that island for just five years and then started equipping.
Speaker 2:You know others, as you mentioned, to use similar approaches, and there's not really a good way to track that, but now there's a coalition of people who are using similar approaches to that, many of which are, you know, downline from trainings that we did all around the world, and it's called 2414, which is named after Matthew 24, verse 14. This gospel of the kingdom will be preached as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come, and so the focus is to start, you know, this kind of disciple making, using this type of approach all over the world, and right now the movements that have kind of resulted in our collaborating in this way have over 120 million people, and so that's significant. And then, just from the training center we've set up here now there are people serving in 174 countries, and we've gotten reports back now over the last 12 years now of tens of millions of baptisms and millions of house churches. So God's using these types of approaches quite a bit now.
Speaker 1:I want to center on that just a little bit because to me that's inspiring. You have kind of a little training center there in um, not too far from me in Alabama here. It's a very I've been there, went through your training. It's a very um kind of like a you know homestead with uh some training facilities and places and uh tell us a little bit about what the how many trainings you know you do on a regular basis there. Like, if we look back over the 12 years you say the impact has been tens of millions of people, of baptisms and many, many churches planted all over the world.
Speaker 1:But what was, what was this? What was the seed of that? What does that look? What did that look like on your end? Because I think it's uh. To me what's inspiring is it's. It's uh, it's not like Billy Graham crusades that take a ton of resources and time. It's was, is is fairly simple really, what you've done over the past 12 years. But I think it's that follow-up and that teaching them to obey kind of thing that has seemed to have the most impact, but kind of give a picture of what that's looked like that you all have done over the past 12 years so that people can be, I guess, inspired by how simple it really is.
Speaker 2:I guess inspired by how simple it really is. Yeah, so we're primarily set up to run one-week training modules and we've got four core modules and then do some other ad hoc ones. But the one core module that's a prerequisite for all of the others is just on multiplying disciples in simple churches. So probably I would say over half of our training is equipping people in that module. And once people come through, then I do three months of kind of follow up coaching with them as they begin to implement what they've learned and then sort of give them the option on what they want ongoing contact to look like.
Speaker 2:And you know a lot of people I never hear from again, you know, after that. But some, you know, do you want to remain engaged at some level? Some it's very intense, you know interaction, and some just you know if something comes up, they give me a call. And then you know those that stay in touch typically report on fruit that they're seeing and that's where those numbers come from and um, yeah, so that's kind of in a nutshell. And, as I mentioned, though, we're just sort of making a transition, and one of the big transitions is we're scaling way back on the training of new people, and not that I don't think that's important anymore, but many of the people that we've trained are now training others, and so they don't. I'm not really needed, you know, to do that anymore.
Speaker 1:So so you, you were only doing about how many of those trainings a year on average, do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the last well, the COVID year was low and then the last year we did very little because we were traveling around to visit people in North, people who had remained in North America to implement, and we were on the road for the year. Other years I don't know we'd probably average 10, 10 or 11 of those one one week things per year. Some, you know, a few years was more than that, but most years that would be about the average.
Speaker 1:It's really blessed to be able to attend one of those, uh, several years ago. A huge blessing, huge, huge impact on myself. So let's go into talk a little bit about the connection and relevance of discipleship for people in agriculture. One of the challenges for me in the past has been when I've engaged with people that are really passionate about reaching the nations and making disciples and seeing believers multiplied and new baptism and all that.
Speaker 1:Once I start talking about agriculture what we're doing with, with stewardship of the land and stuff it sometimes there's often been a disconnect of well, that's that's, you know, that's good, but like this is the real mission in life, you know, and sometimes a difficulty for people to see or for me to maybe explain or see how what God's called me to in agriculture is a part of, can be a part of, god's plan in making disciples. And so I know you probably talk a little bit about, you know in your community development, your fourth module, some of these, the relevance of these things. But for those that are feel called to agriculture but want to make disciples and want to have an impact in God's kingdom, what kind of encouragement would you have for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, first of all, I think it's, if I were, you know, called to be in agriculture, I would be really tempted to have a little bit of a sense of superiority, because in the beginning that was a key part of what God intended for man, right? Genesis 128, genesis 215, you know, God taking the man, putting him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it, that stewardship of the land, that's not like a post-fall thing, that's God's perfect intent. And so, first of all, I would sort of start with that, so that agriculture, yeah, it can be a mission field, but it's a divine calling in and of itself, right, and I think it's a powerful platform. It allows us to steward creation and multiply disciples, and you know, jesus frequently used agricultural parables, agricultural illustrations, agricultural phraseology, agricultural phraseology it's a great way to communicate biblical principles, because a lot of the same principles that apply to agriculture, they're illustrative of spiritual truths, and so you know just that, all of that to me would be a preface. You know, we, we think in terms of stewarding, like in churches a lot of times, stewarding money or like things like that. But of course we're supposed to steward everything that God gives us and the earth is the Lord and all it contains. Right, psalm 24, one and stewarding the earth, that's a big deal, that's a his. His creation is a significant part of his revelation of himself. And so I think also just the in a sense, ethical farming is a testimony of faith. And, you know, stewarding not only the resources but also then giving us the opportunity to be generous. Right In Leviticus 19, 9 and 10, it's talking about, in farming, leaving gleanings for the poor, right, and so sustainability is important and generosity is important, and agriculture gives a venue for demonstrating those things.
Speaker 2:Culture gives a venue for demonstrating those things. I think it's a great platform for gospel conversations, you know, because while there is a lot of, you know, probably alone time, there are all. There also are opportunities to, you know, interact with others that you're working on inside, if you're in a professional setting, with neighbors, with customers, you know, and again, the opportunity to teach spiritual truths through agricultural metaphors and utilizing those farming communities as relational hubs for disciple making. You know, god designed the world, as I mentioned, as an expression, part of how he communicates his character and nature. You know, romans 1.20 talks about how his invisible attributes are visible through creation, and there's all kinds of discipleship principles in farming, like sowing and reaping right Galatians, chapter 6, verses 7 through 9, pruning for growth, out of John 15, right the vine and the branches, waiting on God's timing, like James 5, 7, talking about the patience of the farmer as he waits for the early and later rains.
Speaker 2:You know all of these are directly tied with agriculture and you know people who might not get the message other ways and understand it through these natural demonstrations of these truths. And then you know the whole Sabbath rest. You know idea so that there's all kinds of agricultural rhythms that illustrate or reflect spiritual truth. So honoring him in rest, right, daily dependence on God for you know weather or whatever. You know Nobody's more keenly aware of that than a farmer. Right, that's, the necessity of relying on God, is extremely acute in agricultural communities. The whole, the rhythms of planting and harvest. You know that is directly applicable to the spiritual world.
Speaker 2:The spiritual world, the celebrations, right, the harvest festivals, or you know, events, even in scripture, there are some of those that relate directly to the agricultural cycle and those opportunities are present in every culture and every society. And again, it's clearest, in the agricultural world. There's the opportunity to mentor younger farmers, right, or to form community networks to not only to get the work done but then also to make sure, on that idea of generosity, that those in need in the community are cared for, you know, so that can be a community network opportunity. You know, while you're working, if you're working alongside others, that's a great opportunity for spiritual discussions. Even in the New Testament, like in the early church, we see the early church sharing food as an expression of faith and love. Right, visiting over meals is a great opportunity as well and, of course, as in any business, you can use, you know, profits to support, you know, the, the professional missionaries or you know whatever. That's always possible and that includes agricultural businesses. In terms of farming, as a means to empower and disciple communities, I think something you've been heavily involved in leading and equipping is like the farming God's way kind of thing, and that has been used tremendously in mission context all over the world. And I think you know, hopefully, if you haven't already done a podcast on that, already done a podcast on that. You spend a podcast just talking about how God's used farming, god's way to impact communities around the world, because I think that's not enough.
Speaker 2:People are aware of that work. I think of verses like John 4, 35, right, lift up your eyes, look at the fields that they're white for harvest. Right, so farmers understand the urgency of the harvest and that parallels with the spiritual urgency, you know, of harvest and sharing the gospel and you that missions thing. So it's not a separate, I don't know it. To me it just reinforces that spiritual truth and, um, the whole multiplication idea that we talked about, you know, and that's inherent in the great commission that you opened with on this podcast episode. Just as crops multiply when properly cared for, disciple making involves investing in others who will, in turn, invest in more people. And if we're making disciples well, that will be the result, just like when we farm, well, that's the result. And so, uh, you know, to me that makes it clearer for those in agriculture to have a reproducible model of discipleship, and you know that that can be, again, something that's available to anybody but is also available for agricultural workers, is hosting Bible studies or you know, other equipping opportunities that will repeat, because farming communities tend to be closer knit, so there are stronger relationships for those spiritual truths to flow through.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so again, maybe to conclude, just I would encourage people to see farming not just as a profession but a calling Right and Trust God to bring spiritual growth from the seeds that we sow. Right. We do that with the agriculture and so that can flow into the disciple-making. And I love from a farming perspective. It gives extra punch to 2 Corinthians 9-10. He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. That could be, you know, a life verse for farming to make disciples, you know. Just a final comment is one of our primary concerns in all of life is to glorify God, and he says my father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples, in John 15, 8. And so I don't know, that may be more than you are wanting, but I think there's all kinds of tie-ins with farming and making disciples.
Speaker 1:Awesome. It's a super encouragement, I think, to anybody listening that's involved in agriculture to understand that it's not just a segue to a gospel presentation, but it's actually a visible way to display what it looks like to follow God in a calling. And I think, like you said, there's so many ways that God reveals himself through creation that we're able to understand and communicate those spiritual principles. Even another thing I think about is the idea of seasons. And you're not a bad farmer if you don't harvest something every day. You go out there, you work with the anticipation of the harvest, but just because you're not seeing the harvest yet doesn't mean that you're being a bad farmer. And that's helpful sometimes when you're investing in other people, to just understand the patience that's involved in that and understand you're not a failure just because you don't see any harvest yet. In fact, you know it's the preparation that you do in the season leading up to the harvest that allows you to even you know handle it when it does come, and so those are some great things.
Speaker 1:There's a challenge for many people that are in America and that are farmers, homesteaders, when we think about all these amazing opportunities. It sounds great to be able to make disciples that way. But honestly, we live in a culture where people don't talk about spiritual things in a regular like in normal everyday conversation. Farmers don't even really bring it up that much. They may go to church, but just Jesus is not something people are comfortable talking about or with people about. So for somebody to kind of get out of that rut of like yes, I want to be able to start pointing people to Jesus through my normal everyday interactions with my customers or my feed supplier guy or you know fellow farmer, whoever it is, do you have any simple tools that could help them to be able to kind of jumpstart that ability to naturally begin to start spiritual conversations that show what God's doing in their life, just because we have that wall sometimes culturally that we run up against that is hard to break through, to be able to start making this a more natural thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So first I would go back to our own, cultivating our awareness of his presence and his involvement in all of life ourselves. So if we're constant, to me that that's the prerequisite for, you know, for than us sharing that with others. And that sharing with others aspect is not something that I'm naturally good at my wife is much better at it than I am and I've had some friends who are way better than I am but voicing some of those parallels that we talked about. So, starting with, you know, a spiritual truth, like relying on God for the rain, you know, or like heows abundantly will reap abundantly, or like whatever, but start with the physical manifestation of that, and then that enables us to express the spiritual truth. And just looking for opportunities to do that, I think, can be a very natural way, you know, to sort of achieve that habit or practice.
Speaker 1:I think you've said before that stuck with me is for us to really make disciples, we have to be a disciple worth multiplying, and so that's our first focus is do we have anything to share about what Jesus is doing in our life? If somebody did ask and if we do have those stories, then it'll be more natural for us to share them, because they're fresh and new and and part of the hope that we have that we can bring to others when we see them struggling with similar things but they don't have the hope of jesus. So when you talk about um, the yeah, I think we've.
Speaker 1:We've kind of touched base on kind of how to contextualize the gospel for people in agriculture, because it's so relevant. It's very easy to to talk about um. You know these, these correlations. But as you think about um, maybe the normal way that people would share the gospel in the church um, normal gospel equipping presentations If you're going to be talking to a farmer or somebody in agriculture or a hippie farmer or whoever it is that's in agriculture, very familiar with agriculture, but is not at all churchy or religious or not comfortable talking in those terms, what might be a way that you would contextualize the gospel in a way that would communicate clearly the truths of the gospel to somebody that's more from an agricultural background or context and you've probably alluded to some of these things already but how would you bring that home practically speaking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing I like to do is starting with the Garden of Eden, right, because that's relevant because of, you know, god's call on Adam, and so then from there I like to contrast the situation then in terms of relationship, right. So I like to start with man's relationship with God was obviously perfect. His relationship with kind of in in a sense, himself, right, he was comfortable in his own skin, and all of that. His relationship with others, ie at the very beginning, just with Eve, and then his relationship with creation and how God's perfect intention was evident in those areas. And then contrasting that with post-fall, you know, once sin was introduced, and how his relationship with God was marred. His comfort, you know, with himself was marred, his, you know, kind of self perception and all of that. His relationship with others was marred. His relationship with creation was marred.
Speaker 2:And talking about you know, that reality and tying that in with what, you know, people are experiencing ever since then up to this time, and you know just how efforts, our efforts to fix those are at best temporary and partial, right, but that god has provided a way and it's still his intention for all of those to be fully brought back to their original, you know, perfection and, um, I think a lot of people can relate to that and, uh, the fact that those things are not perfect, you know, and everyone experiences the longing for those things to be right, and so you know, I think for most people that that's a relevant discussion, and so that's a lot of times how I like to relate to people like that like to relate to people like that.
Speaker 1:I think I've even used that same approach when talking to Christians about how, why agriculture is a relevant thing for the church to be involved in, because we're involved in helping people gain, you know, a restored relationship with themselves or their identity, a new self-worth in Christ, helping them to learn to love their enemies and be at peace and learn to kind of allow God to redeem their relationship with others. But, by and large, this broken relationship with creation is not one that we've really addressed a lot as the church and that we should be involved in, and it makes more holistic sense when you talk about it that way than just more the simplistic, just gospel presentation of we're here, god's here. Sin separates us and Jesus gets us back, if you can say well, jesus restores our relationship with God so we can have these hope for these other relationships to be restored. Then all of a sudden it relates to a bigger chunk of the problems in life that they face. That helps them see the hope that Jesus really offers, not just for eternity but even for restoration today, a beginning of that in something practical like agriculture. So I think that's a great, great way to contextualize that.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to finish up with just a few tools and resources you recommend, but we are going to have a for those of you who are members of Redeeming the Dirt Academy.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do a short after show with Curtis, where I'm going to talk to him a little bit about some tips for sharing the gospel and making disciples. As an introvert as Curtis Sargent is a self-proclaimed introvert and not the normal type, a personality of people that you would think of that would go and share the gospel, and so it's an encouragement for us, for those of us who aren't that way, to see how God can use us that way. So we're going to talk about that and also a bit about what do we do as far as challenges with church, and I know a lot of the people that I talked to today are struggling with finding a good church, being engaged with a church that's passionate about disciple making, and so we'll talk a little bit about that as well. But for this main part of the show, curtis, could you please share what are some links, tools, resources that you would recommend for people that want to learn more about multiplying discipleship and how to involve this kind of thing in their lives on a regular basis?
Speaker 2:Sure A few resources I might mention. One would be I wrote a book that's available for free in the electronic format and people can access that at theonlyonebookcom. I also referenced an online training for just the introductory basics of disciple making and it's called Zume, so that's Z-U-M-E dot training would be the URL for that and that's free. The resource kind of page that I've been working on these last couple of months is at ObeyGC2.com, so that's o-b-e-y gc number two at gene or dot com, and it has a lot of various kind of resources related to this in lots of languages, like lots of languages and um, but including english. So those would be three um that I would maybe mention first would be huge and I would highly recommend the only one book.
Speaker 1:Um, I use that all the time. It's a very huge, encouraging, because it really speaks first of all to a personal walk with the lord being being a disciple worth multiplying, and then how you know, that translates into the community and community body life and then making disciples and stuff. So definitely recommend all those resources, guys to check those out. I'll put them in the show notes. So, curtis, thank you so much for sharing with the audience today. I always love for our guests to conclude by just praying for the listeners that God would help them to receive and apply whatever truths that they needed to hear from today, and then we'll wrap it up before we record the after show.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 2:All right, go ahead yeah lord we um um, we can hardly comprehend how you desire and allow and provide for us to know you and to love you and to serve you.
Speaker 2:And, lord, we know that we can never do this in our own strength or ability, but, lord, that you provide that as well. And, lord, I ask for each person who hears this to be reminded once again of the depth of your love for us and the opportunity that you give us to follow you and to be used by you to bless others. So, lord, I pray that you would accomplish all of your purposes in the lives of the people who hear this episode, so that they might come to know you more fully and be changed by their understanding of who you are. And, lord, that you'll also fully accomplish your purposes for them in being a blessing to others, whether it's those who don't yet know you as a testimony of your grace and purpose and love, or those who already know you as equippers, so that they might be better used by you, and so I pray that you would do this for each person listening in Jesus name, amen.
Speaker 1:Thanks everyone for listening again. Thanks, Curtis, and until next time. I encourage you guys to be humble, to be faithful and to be faithful and to keep redeeming the dirt. God bless.