Homeschooling On The Homestead

What does it look like to educate your children well when you're also milking cows, fixing tractors, and butchering chickens? In this episode, Noah sits down with Todd Smith — a former teacher and school administrator turned homeschooling, homesteading dad — to talk about integrating education and farm life instead of letting them compete.

Todd shares the vision of "domestic monasticism" that led three families to co-own an 86-acre farm in East Tennessee, and why a life shaped by prayer, study, and labor forms children who are thoughtful, compassionate, and hardworking.

In this episode:

• Why education is more formation than information — and what that frees you from
• Starting with the end in mind: defining who you want your children to become before deciding what curriculum to use
• Writing a family vision statement (and why keeping the whole list in front of you is a recipe for discouragement)
• Charlotte Mason's simple daily framework: something to know, someone to love, something to do
• Oral narration, commonplace notebooks, and copying Scripture — low-cost tools that actually build readers and writers
• A day in the life on St. Mary's Farm
• When the pigs get out and the tractor breaks: treating "distractions" as the curriculum, not interruptions to it
• An honest conversation about family roles, complementarianism, and how Todd and his wife divide farm, income, and education
• Practical first steps: choose one book, read it together, and make your child the resident expert on one part of the farm

Resources mentioned:

• Todd's packet of planning questions and skill lists for homesteading families 
• The Monkhood of All Believers by Greg Peters
• The Benedict Option and Live Not by Lies by Rod Dreher
• Charlotte Mason's educational philosophy
• The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien

Connect with Todd:

• Instagram: St. Mary's Farm Tennessee
• Email: tsmith@fcsva.com

Until next time — be faithful, be humble, and keep redeeming the dirt.

Transcript

Faith Farming And The Household

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the Redeeming the Derb podcast. I'm Noah Sanders. I'm so glad you could join us today. On this podcast, we really love to explore the integration of faith and farming, how our faith and following Jesus impacts practical things like agriculture, and uh and how that uh it allows us to be a light and a witness to the world around us. And one of the basic things that God uh designed for uh both the church and for society, and I believe for agriculture is the family unit and the idea of family discipleship. It's so easy, even in the church, just to think of ourselves as a bunch of individuals collected together. Um, but we're actually households, and the household is one of the most amazing discipleship units, and it's been historically one of the most productive and resilient economic units of production. And uh, and yet many of us have not grown up in a way that we know what it looks like to uh to be a household, to disciple our children, especially in contexts that are productive and not just um the urban environments we grew up in. So uh my wife and I, we have eight kids, and we are uh very passionate about discipling them uh and really making sure that we don't miss them to go and make disciples of other people. Um we believe that focusing first on being faithful with our children uh will be a platform, a stepping stone, a launch pad uh of faithfulness that God will use to expand our reach outside of our household and into our communities. Um, and then we also feel like God's called us on the homestead to show a life of productivity, of simplicity, of a focus on family and values and um real things, real food, God's ways versus man's ways, kind of thing, in order to both uh experience that, to be able to share it with others, um, but also just to uh to be able to kind of struggle with learning what that looks like. So we have our homestead, we live off grid. Uh, and one of the things that we have uh struggled with in years past, both my wife and I are have been homeschooled and we really enjoyed that, but we didn't really grow up in um like a homestead family where we were productively working together, butchering animals and canning vegetables and cutting firewood and all those kind of things. And so the the traditional idea of of home homeschooling that we experienced, which was pretty much a lot of our day, a lot of our my parents' focus, my mom's focus, um, has been a bit challenging to apply that same exact model of the academic kind of approach to homeschooling and still have time for the homesteading. And we don't want to go so, you know, we tend to flip-flop between just focusing on the school and then all the homestead stuff kind of starts falling to pieces, and then we flip to, you know, oh, catch up on that and the schooling doesn't happen. And and so realizing, you know, maybe there's a we need to rethink what it looks like to raise our kids where they're prepared for whatever God has for them in the future, whether they are homesteaders or not. Um, understand what is that, what does success look like? What does it practically look like on a day-to-day basis from when we wake up in the morning to when we go to bed at night to actually be successfully making progress and investing in our kids in a way that's realistic and also provides an opportunity for the kind of lifestyle of production that we want to have with them. Uh so I was excited a few years ago. Um, a friend of mine connected me with a gentleman that had given a talk on this kind of topic of homesteading and homeschooling and how to kind of how they on their farm uh approach that topic and some of their thoughts and journeying on it. And so it's it's taken us a little while to get together to get this podcast going, uh, but I always am excited because sometimes those are the best ones, you know, that

Meet Todd And A Shared Farm

SPEAKER_03 3:53

you got to fight for. So very excited today to welcome Todd Smith of St. Mary's Farm to the podcast today and to talk a little bit about this topic. Todd, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah, thanks, Noah, for having me on. It's that's a pleasure, humbled and grateful for sure.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Yeah. So just can you start off uh just with a quick introduction? Where are you? Kind of what are you doing, and and then we'll go into a little bit of your journey after that.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Sure, you bet. Yeah, currently we are in East Tennessee, and we have an 86-acre farm that we co-own with two other families. So this this project started about three years ago, and we were interested in developing together a thick Christian community for our own welfare, but also for the flourishing of our children. And so we have we have now three years under our belt, and we've made a lot of the mistakes. And so while um, you know, our experience has been um I think meaningful for all of those um on the farm, uh, you know, a lot of what we have to share is um what not to do. And and in fact, uh as a parent who homeschools his children, um, a lot of what I I have to share and what I've shared with people in the past is really what I've learned about how how to adapt um homeschooling with with homesteading, just as you mentioned, Alex. So um a lot, a lot of this of what I have to share is um from mistakes I've made and uh made good on them.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Yeah, that's a very great, humble perspective. I appreciate that. Uh so I know a lot of people are coming, maybe thinking there's a lot of different families with different uh um, you know, sometimes the dads are working full-time and sometimes the moms are there or whatever. So tell tell me a little bit like what does it look like as far as your ability right now to as as we talk about your days and what that might look like, what do you do kind of for work? How much are you on the farm versus not on the farm? What does that kind of dynamic for your family look like so people can have that in mind as they're thinking about their own situation?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, the profile of our family is a bit unorthodox, I think likely uh among uh your your listenership. So we have, as I mentioned, three families, and our family um uh consists of three children and then uh my wife of now 17 years. And actually, she's the one that works off farm. And I'm I'm a trained educator. So I've spent 15 years um as both a teacher and as a school administrator. And between the two of us, even though she was homeschooled throughout her education as a as a child and adolescent, we we both agreed that I was the best prepared and most interested in educating our our children in their in their teens. So I should I should mention that before moving to the farm, our children attended the same school where I both taught and administrated. So uh they were products of institutional learning through our oldest was in seventh grade when we pulled her. Uh and and so um I I am the stay-at-home dad, really, and I homeschool. So we're still subscribers to um complementarianism, but we we would um define that dynamically and and not so statically. Uh so and then another family on our farm just so happens to be that uh he's a stay-at-home dad, but she works remotely. And then the other family uh is a more traditional model where he's a physician, works off farm, and she stays home with the children.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Okay, well, that's a that's a helpful context because, like you said, it's not a a normal approach that most people wouldn't have that that context for. Um but it'll very helpful as we we go through the rest of the conversation here. So you've mentioned it just briefly, like your start with working in education and then kind of making this shift. And just describe to me a little bit like the behind the scenes of uh that journey from that perspective, having your kids in that school, your experience looking at education from that kind of perspective to now the kind of the approach that you're taking um with your kids

Why Homeschooling Felt More Faithful

SPEAKER_03 8:25

currently.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah, good. Yeah, you bet. So as both a a product and a proprietor of institutional learning, I I should say first that there are a lot of virtues to um to school, to big box big big box of schools. Um and and so um none of my comments would I think detract from that that conviction. While at the same time, even as a as a teacher and a school administrator, I maintain that homeschooling I think is probably the ideal model of education. And I say that for a couple of reasons. Uh some of them practical, um, but um uh the foremost I would say is deeply Christian. So homeschooling I think is ideal because it uh the product speaks for itself. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Some of the homeschoolers that I have met throughout my uh throughout my life and um throughout my career are are some of the most interesting uh and capable young people. And and so I don't think that's a mistake. I think it really is a result of of their education and speaks to uh the value of this model. But then um beyond practical, the pragmatics of homeschooling, I I think um Christians as um as those primarily responsible for um discipling our children, homeschooling gives us the opportunity to do that best if if if only because of the time afforded us, um if if our lifestyle um warrants or or affords us the opportunity to do so. And not not every family has that opportunity, I I I recognize. But if you do, if you do have that opportunity, uh I encourage um every warm-hearted and serious-minded Christian to at least consider homeschooling their children. Um because um we we while while some parents I think can can choose to delegate um the responsibility of educating to others who are capable, and and especially as Christian parents, to those who are also um qualified and who are deeply devout. And we we want our children to be have have these kinds of interactions with people. And sometimes the most formative relationships are those with teachers. And so um, but that said, that there is a really rich opportunity for those Christian parents um who um have the opportunity to homeschool to be able to impart to them uh a faith and a way of life that um puts puts our kids in danger of having a deeply rich relationship with Christ. And so that's the opportunity that that Christian parents have if they if they would choose to homeschool for sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, and so what was it that uh uh caused that shift? Like what was your epiphany moment that kind of made you decide to leave that world to kind of uh sh shift over to your focus on the homestead?

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah, good. Yeah, sure.

Domestic Monasticism Versus Achievement Culture

SPEAKER_02 11:40

So a couple of things. Um I I was put onto a book called The Monkhood of All Believers, and and so in this book, the author he he offers a history of monasticism, but there's one practical chapter about what a the life of a monk looks like. And this kind of stoked my imagination. And essentially the life of a monk is um, depending on uh which uh historian you might ask, dictated by either two or three activities, right? So prayer and and labor, or we we have adopted prayer, study, and labor as part of the culture of our farm. And so really uh the the life of a monk is very simple. His li his life is shaped by these three habits, that is, prayer, study, and labor. And as a result, um the monk becomes pious or devout, uh, he becomes contemplative, and then he also becomes hardworking. And and I think all Christian parents would agree that this is really these are three attributes we want our children to have uh before they leave, before they leave our house. So I would say that positively. I had this vision of what we call domestic monasticism and um the kind of uh people we want our children to become. But then negatively, I would I would also say that there is a toxicity to achievement culture that is often um perpetuated in institutional learning. So kids um uh in both private and public schools often feel the pressure uh to fill out a competitive CV uh in preparation for college in order to get into a good school so they can get a good job and retire early. And it just seems like this is this is a trajectory for life that is not really taught, it's just taught. They they they pick up on this in in culture and because of the model of the education, and and and life becomes very harried um and hurried. And so, you know, it's spent in the minivan going from school to piano lessons to soccer practice, managing to get dinner in between. And and this is a lifestyle that uh we were uh uh beginning to to embrace as a family, and we wanted to get away from it really. We wanted to slow down. Uh and and to do that, we wanted to go rural. It's not to say that um for us domestic monasticism is dedicated, it is only done within a rural setting. I think I think there's a way to do this in the suburbs, even in an urban setting. Um, but you know, there are ways to both homestead and homeschool uh in an integrative fashion in in all of those settings. But for us, slowing down meant going into the country, um, going uh rural. So that's where we ended up. So it's really for those reasons. Um, wanting wanting our children to um practice a life of prayer study and labor, and then also to get away from um the hurried and harried culture of achievement and consumerism and and and instead re-restore or renew their relationship with creation on a farm. So that's what got us here for sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, there's no formula to going to a farm, but there is this element that you know you can swim upstream to a degree, but if but ultimately like we we are the product of those who are around, what we listen to, who we, you know, are friends with, uh, the things that we consume, where we buy them from like all that still shapes, especially, you know, you can have the missionary mindset of going into a culture, but when you have kids in that culture, it then they it was it was similar to like, you know, we're getting close to Thanksgiving here, but you had the separatists, the pure the pilgrims in Holland being like, we're here, you know, we see our separateness, but our kids are just getting sh, you know, absorbed into the culture. And so there's there's a sense in which uh there it's not a formula for for kids turning out, but there's a a way that your setting does help dictate a bit of your activity, which helps to sew to your values, which all those kinds of things why culture is so important, yeah. Um, even though we still uh want to in in you know strengthen our kids to be countercultural, yes, be able to engage with ideas and people that they don't agree with um and stand firm. And so they can't do we just don't put them in a bubble of uniformity and and think that's gonna make them be a you know be a leader. Uh it's not until they because they'll just learn to conform instead of learn to live intentionally. So that's kind of how we we try to think about as well in our farm and help people understand that we need to think carefully about how we spend our days and minutes and you know, weeks and years, because that's uh you're gonna reap what you sow ultimately. And I think there's such a big element of being able to model ourselves, like you said, that that lifestyle of they're gonna catch more than they get fed. Right. And so it's they need to be following us and us saying prioritizing what what God's you know laid on our hearts so they can see that.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah, to your point, Noah back in 2010, can't remember when, but uh Rod Dreyer, he published a book titled Um The Benedict Option, which was Yeah, I was gonna mention that.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I actually have it in my it's a very uh I I like a lot of his thoughts on the Benedict Option.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

You know, along with some of the things you're saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah, it was reading that book that also kind of um informed our vision that um, you know, he's in the book, and you know, your your listenership might be interested in reading it, you know, he's arguing for for some, you know, perhaps a calling of strategic retreat in a post-Christian culture. And he makes a compelling case. It's not it's not a calling for all, for sure, just as you said. Um, but yeah, for the for those um who might be interested or who are perhap perhaps perceiving uh the beginnings of um a divine calling toward homesteading because you're not there yet, um that book may help you for sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Yeah, and books I I really like the Benedict option because even though I might not agree with everything that Rod says in there, he's very articulate. And I like books that kind of what what do I actually this is outside my box. I you know, I tend to learn more about the books that I might not wholeheartedly agree with every point than I do in the ones that just tap me on the back with what are you know perspectives. So encourage uh people with that, with that kind of preface to uh check out that because uh that book and then his live not by lies is really good. Just that idea of you kind of have this idea of how do you live if you're in Jerusalem as a Jew, you know, representing the Lord, and then how do you live in exile when you're in Babylon? Exactly. Both of those different ones of us are called to at different points in time, and they're both legitimate. And you're not gonna live like you're in Babylon if you're in Jerusalem, but you can't live like you're in Jerusalem if you're in Babylon, you know, in a spiritual sense. And so uh we just have to be humble to say, how does God want to use me? And ultimately has the ability to put you right in the middle of, you know, a very world, you know, downtown, wherever, uh, and use you there, even though there's benefits to living on a homestead. So I think part of that uh is what our kids need to see us doing is wrestling with not saying, hey, got kids, homesteading is the solution all Christians need, but say, hey kids, we're trying to radically be open to whatever God's calling us to and go for it and know we're not gonna do it perfectly, but you know, you're gonna see us press it into him. That's that's really what's gonna have you know some of the biggest impact. And I think that's where um I'd love for you to just uh speak briefly to this idea biblically on when we approach education, you know, making sure that we're looking at this idea of formation of our kids, not just passing on information.

Formation Matters More Than Information

SPEAKER_03 20:12

And how do you how do you view that uh homesteading facilitates that in your life?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, good. Good. So education certainly includes information.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Right. By the saying, which I th I think for some who've been in education, it can be cliche to say so. Um I use it nonetheless because it's I think helpful. Um it it's to include something more that I think is often excluded in the conversation about education when we say education is more formation than information. So what I mean by that um as as parents, uh as homeschooling, um, homeschooling parents, we're really interested in um imparting to our children um a way of thinking and a way of life. And the ancients, they they talked about this in terms of wisdom and virtue. And this is what we mean by a true education. In fact, this is the kind of education that um if you were required to define the term, most people throughout history and in all places would have said something like that. Education is really about um kind of a way of life, but it's only in the recent past, I suppose within the last hundred and fifty years, that we have learned a different answer to that question, and largely due to industrialized education because standardized learning really doesn't lend itself to um assessing whether a child uh has wisdom or has virtue. You know, your listenership might think about their own education and how. Often, you know, their character was um evaluated uh probably never um until they went to get a job. Yeah, right? Yes, yeah. Uh and instead, really what what was what we um we were assessed for our ability to um re recount the information that we had been given. So um again, don't hear what I'm not saying. Information is important, but um the ultimate objective uh is really um providing providing our children, imparting to them a a way of life. And um, and so that can that can be um both encouraging and also um overwhelming, right? Because uh education, if it's not just about information, but about a way of life, it can seem as though this the um that frame for education is um is enormous, and you're right. But there are some really simple ways to go about it, um, and perhaps we can talk about those. And so it you know, my I think m my my comments are really aimed at, you know, the the parent who is intimidated by the prospect of homeschooling um because he or she thinks this is this is not something within my skill set. And I would, you know, politely and and um gently uh respond, but you are. And it's also for the um you know, the the parent who is homesteading in homeschooling already and is overwhelmed. And and um I think the suggestions I have may simplify education for you and help to integrate the two, both homesteading and homeschooling, so that really you can do both. And you can do both well uh rather than um suffer under the shame and discouragement of feeling as though you're doing both poorly.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yeah. Well, why don't you talk a little bit about the uh the idea of kind of starting with the end in mind? Because I think that sometimes we're all about checking off the boxes on the way, but we forget where we're trying to go. And that idea of crafting what's your end goal in terms of your kids' education, I think is a great, great concept. So why don't you talk a little bit about that to help us to consider how that we might can do that as parents?

Start With The End In Mind

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah, good. Yeah, Jesus talks a lot about this. He he tells these two obscure parables about um the foolish king who sets out to um to build, uh, but not first reckoning whether he has the money and resources to do it. And then also a military commander who thinks to you know wage a military campaign campaign, but doesn't first determine whether he has the soldiers to manage it. So in the same way, uh maybe borrowing another metaphor, uh it's it is foolish uh for you know a homeschooling family um to set out in home the adventures of homeschooling without first you know specifically defining a destination. And once once you've decided that destination, then you can determine how you're gonna get there and how you know you've arrived. So um speak very plainly, really, we we as parents need to sit down with one another and decide, you know, what do we want our children to become? Like what kind of adults uh should they be? And um and before they leave our house, what do they need to know and what do they need to be able to do? And so um it would be a really helpful practice if you know a couple um, or if uh you know you're a single mom or dad and you you are homeschooling because you have the opportunity, just sit down an evening or maybe take a weekend retreat and think deeply about this. Take a couple of books about child rearing, about um adulthood, and or maybe a couple of podcasts, and and define as specifically as possible what kind of child you want um you want your um, or what kind of adult rather you want your child to become. And then specifically what skills they should have and what uh knowledge and wisdom they should possess before they leave your house. And you know, we can at least start with um, I think we would all agree that we we want we want our children to be thoughtful, uh we want we want our children to be compassionate, and we want our children to be hardworking. I think despite the setting, every parent would agree that those are at least three characteristics or attributes that they would want their children to have um before they leave the house. And so and and those attributes encompass a whole lot of others. And so if we can aim at that destination, if that's what we're uh choosing as the adult we want our children to become, then there are some really simple ways uh to get our um our children there. But you know, I have a uh a packet or some resources that might help um parents who are interested in that discussion about what they want their children to become, the questions that they might ask themselves, and some suggestions as to what they um what they should be able to know and or what they should know and be able to do, and especially targeted toward the homesteading family. Right. So um, so uh yeah, I'll um I'll have that available to you, Noah, in case you want to tag that in the in the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Yeah, we'll definitely do that. Give give me um maybe a couple of those practical l things so we can kind of get our juices flowing of what are some statements or ideas that that would uh be on that list.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Yeah, sure. Yeah. So uh for instance, you know, uh some goals that we've set for our our kids, the things that we want them uh to learn um and to be able to do before they leave, you know, includes um, you know, preparing a meal for six, um, setting a table and and practicing hospitality, how to uh change uh a flat tire, how to um sew a field, mow the lawn, clean the bathroom, very practical things. We want them to also be familiar with word processing, how to be able to design a PowerPoint um presentation, how to create their own Excel spreadsheet. So um in thinking about all fields, um, not just those things dedicated to the outdoors, but also um both intellectual and and digital skills. But then also um we want we want them to practice a kind of culture within our own household. So um we want we want our children to be inclined toward gratitude. We so we we want them to um learn how to give thanks. We want them to know how to nurture friendships with a with a good way to um be a good friend, how to set proper relational boundaries, um how to um uh we we often say, you know, work first and play later. So it's these kind of cultural values that we want to impart and that um our children only will learn um through habits and by repetition. So um again, the the more specific you can be um about what they are to become, then the more specific you can be when you're thinking about um kind of the route to your destination, how you're gonna get them there, and what kind of habits then are going to shape your life, your family life together.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Well, and to our listeners, I would just say this is a very, very helpful thing because my wife and I have been working on this this last year. We've we kind of like you're saying talking about the knowledge, um, Todd, uh, we've tried to create a list of what is the the heart elements that we really want to see our kids have. What are the and those are things like kindness or being able, you know, character qualities, being able to, you know, endure difficulty with joy or being able to show gratitude with little or those kind of things. Um and then you have the head stuff, you know. So you have heart, head, and those kind of like I want to know their multiplication tables. I want them to understand geography and history and the Bible and and those kind of things. And then there's the hands element. And so we have a list of the, like you said, changing a tire or uh knowing how to you know give up uh a public presentation or whatever it might be on that side. And then we also have another, a fourth one, which is the the kind of heart that the you could say harvest or feet. It's the it's the outward service, like how they can, like you said, do hospitality, go and do service, how they can share and communicate with other people. It's the outward kind of ways that they can bless and benefit other people. And to have that list down really helps when we're sitting down and saying, what are we doing on a day-to-day basis in our family culture, in the activities that we're doing that are helping us move towards these goals. So it's not just about, you know, getting through a certain amount of curriculum, even though curriculum can be useful tools, but where are we aiming for? And it's helpful for the kids too to sit down and be like, this is the list, you know, this is what we want you to learn before you go home. We probably won't, you know, it'd probably be a lot a lot more messy than this cut and dry, but to have something to shoot for really allows us to analyze how we're doing on a daily, weekly, yearly basis, rather than, like you said, just having no goal or definition of success. And I think, you know, like you said, it's going and and seeking to write that down. And I think you would definitely agree with this, but making sure that we are, as a couple, praying together, saying, God, these are your kids. We have no idea what you have in store for them in their life. But we know that you put them in our family on purpose. Um, we are imperfect parents. We cannot provide them the same things that other parents can because we're not them and we can't compare ourselves. But we know that there's something special about our family that you have given us these kids. What how do we be faithful? How can we be faithful with that? You know, our family lives off grid on a homestead. Not many people get to do that. I don't know why God's called me to do that, you know, in in totality, but I want to be faithful with that and the fact that my kids are living in that context now because I have to trust that that's going to equip them and provide opportunities for the future. But the one thing that we've learned over time, uh, you know, being on the farm, being together as a family a lot more, uh, because uh we are a lot do a lot of stuff at home. You know, I mean, my wife is a full-time homemaker and I'm at home doing homesteading and some online stuff and have been farming in the past and do a little bit of travel, but we're mostly together. But we un I've under begin, you know, one of the things that I've learned early on is the opportunities to invest in your kids and to equip them to be those kind of people are just that opportunities. Without intentionality, there are things that will happen organically as we just model for them, but we are also fighting upstream against the world, the flesh and the devil. And if we're not intentional, we'll quickly, you know, I'll miss, start missing opportunities, start, you know, not seeing those uh moments that I really need to be paying attention to because of other things that I've put on my list. And uh so there's definitely a humility of that. I'd love for you to um just very quickly. Oh yeah, yeah, go ahead and follow up on that.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

I I think um your your categories, head, hearts, hand, and harvest, very sticky, and categories that are helpful for parents to start thinking about all the many faceted um ways that you know that our our children ought to become really good humans. And um and and so you know, often lists um are the result, and and that's that's the point. And um uh and so the goal then, the goal then with kind of this um all all of these things that we want our children to become is then to create and uh consolidate all of those things into what what might be kind of an overarching vision statement or missions, mission statement. Um, because you know, I I learned pretty quick recipe for discouragement is keeping um all of the things that I wanted my children to become before me, and then thinking, well, uh, you know, there are a thousand there are more failures in a day when I have all of those things uh listed in front of me, when instead kind of a mission statement or a vision statement, either a single paragraph or a single sentence um can be kind of the true, the true north or the compass by which we navigate all the difficulties and the decisions of the day. And so um I I should I should have added that really the uh this kind of project of deciding who you want your children to become really should end with a mission or a vision statement for them. So and and one that you revisit every day so that uh you're reminded um uh uh what you're after, the target you're aiming at, and and avoid kind of mission drift. Um and and also avoid uh uh discouragement. So what is that for your family then? With that, I'm sorry. What is that, what is your family's vision statement then? Yeah, in fact, we've got one for the entire community. And so um, yeah, we we we started we developed this vision statement even before we purchased land together. And so um it's a simple and ordinary life full of prayer, study, and labor prepares us for eternal life. And so just that one sentence, and most of us have it memorized, right? We don't have the tattoo yet, but you know, it's it's like uh it's a way to remember, all right, what are we after? Right when we boil it all down, um, what are the what are the things that we really want for our children? And for us, um, you know, it's again, as I mentioned earlier, prayer, study, and labor. We want our children uh to know God, we want him to know his creation, and then we we want them to be able to to to love others ultimately. There it is, very simple, right? And Jesus would probably, you know, um, you know, um like you know anything that would echo uh the two greatest commandments, right? So there it is. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Exactly. So I think that that flows into this idea of these kind of three daily focuses that you do that kind of simplifies your approach to how you're tracked getting traction on a daily basis in these things. Can you talk about those and what are some of the practical tools you use to do these these three things?

Mission Statements That Prevent Drift

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Yeah, you bet. Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

So let's let's just say we we all agree that um as as Christian parents, we want our children to become thoughtful, compassionate, and hardworking. And it it can be very simple. So I'm I'm borrowing this wisdom from a woman named Charlotte Mason, um an educator with which m many of your listeners may be familiar. And she she suggests education is as simple as this. Give your children every day something to something to know, someone to love, and something to do. So if if you as a parent can can think of uh those categories and and develop habits for your children that really accomplish those three tasks, you know, again, something to know, someone to love, and something to do, then you're going to create by habit children who become adults that are thoughtful, compassionate, and hardworking. Right. So it really, it really is that simple. But then it comes down to all right, well, what what do you mean by something to know? And what do you mean by someone to love and how is it that you've been you know invested in something to do every day? And so that's the fun part of um, you know, creating um not just an education, but a culture on um on the homestead that really does create such such young people.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

So what is uh tell me describe a day in your family's life and how those things would look in a very practical way, because my wife and I are always sitting down, okay, what are we gonna do before breakfast and after breakfast and at nine, and when are we gonna do this? And what do we do after? So the rubber meets the road really hard and gritty. So for you guys, how if we were there and experiencing that, what would that look like and what would be the things and the tools that you guys are using to do that?

A Real Day On The Farm

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

So very quick snapshot of a day in the life. Our our children, when they wake up, they they manage their chores. And then uh we sit down for breakfast at nine o'clock, we pray as a farm. And then afterward, and this has um uh changed or morphed over time, but um, for some time we kept what what some have called a morning meeting. And during this, we might read scripture, we might recite poetry, um, we might talk about the events of the day. It's during this time that we would revisit that mission statement, right? So you keep it before you and as well as your children so that they understand what their education is for. Then uh we would read or work or literature together and discuss, and then they would be uh dedicated, they would accomplish whatever um um independent study has been assigned them before lunch. We eat together. Then I would um assess their work, I'd evaluate it for mastery, and then I would require them to correct it if necessary. Afterwards, they would they're usually done by one, maybe one thirty-two. And then they would have the freedom to pursue their own interests. And so, you know, at times those interests have varied, but at one what time in our family, you know, for our oldest, her interest was um you know, uh refurbishing old furniture. Our second was sewing, and our third was birding. And so they they pursued all of those interests with the free time given them during the afternoon. Um if um and if you know there might be special chores given them that they have to accomplish beforehand, and then dinner uh in our in our life. So if um uh if you don't cook, you clean. So um on a good day, we would then pray together after um after dinner, and and then usually in the evenings um come sundown. It's either reading together, we might play games together, or or watch a movie. And so a lot of that, so that's the day in the life, and that's kind of the structure of our life together. And so you can see that's um really our life is again, it's shaped by prayer, study, and labor. And so all three of those activities kind of dictate um life, life together on the farm. Um so I I suppose one question is well, what does their independent learning look like? And so you know, what what does what does it mean for you to assign your children something something to to know and what do they do? And and so I talk about this in just the three common categories with which all of us are likely familiar, and that is reading, writing, and arithmetic. So the three Rs, the classic, right? And so um when it comes to reading, uh I not only do we read uh a shared work of literature, but also um they have any number of books that for the most part either um they've chosen because of their interest, or I've assigned them because it's just a classic work with which they need to be familiar, right? And um and I um and and so those works are related to all n numbers of um disciplines and uh we we try not to silo um subjects, right? We want them to see that learning is integrated, so geography intersects with history, intersects with literature, intersects with politics, these sorts of things. But all to say, um, you know, when they read um a work of literature or biography, um a piece of poetry, I I often ask them to narrate what they've read, at least one section, paragraph, page, chapter of their reading, because studies show that um narrating reading um is the most effective method to improve reading comprehension. And that's a concern for so many homeschooling parents. Like, how do I get my how do I get my son's reading comprehension to improve? Well, the the most proven method is what we call oral narration. So walking through the process, I'm I might get my son who narrates typically his history reading, he'll read it in he'll read a chapter and then he'll tell me back exactly what it is that he read he's read. And a good narration is one that um typically uh will tell back um this the same order, the content of the chapter, and preferably uh with the same language and style of the author. Because the imitation actually helps students learn or develop an appetite for good writing. And so we encourage that. And then often oral narration can produce a really good conversation. So there are a thousand connections to be made. And so for instance, one time in my son was narrating his history about the slave trade, that then morphed into a conversation, developed into a conversation about the geography of the Caribbean, and then the immorality of the slave trade, and then the origins of the civil rights movement. And so these kinds of conversations, really robust and interesting conversations, wherein students get to explore a thousand connections to whatever they might be reading, often happens in the wake of oral narration. Now, not every narration has to end up in a conversation like that. In fact, most of my conversations with my children don't. And uh also an oral narration doesn't necessarily have to be a retelling what it is that the child read, um, either point for point or even word for word. Sometimes um it can just be, well, what did you think about what you read? Um, what was really most interesting about the chapter? And so um there are there are many questions that a parent can ask in order to help a child retell um or narrate what they've read so that um their comprehension is improved. So that's kind of what we mean by reading. Um writing, you know, get your children writing about whatever it is that interests them most. And there are a couple of tools here that you can put in your toolbox. Um a narration doesn't have to be oral, it can be written. They can write what it is that they read. And there can be a thousand creative prompts that a parent gives uh his child or her child when when given a narration assignment. So, you know, maybe maybe they've read a work of literature and they write they write a note to the protagonist, you know, um what it is that they thought about the decisions he or she made. Or um maybe they they write a eulogy for um the person whose biography they read. So there are a lot of a lot of ideas um about writing that don't require really expensive composition curricula. It's not to say it's not bad. It's just that really, if you've got a book and you've got some blank paper, you can do quite a lot as a homeschooling parent to get your children writing about what they've read. You don't you don't have to think in these separate silos now that they're right, now they're developing their composition skills and now they're reading. Like put them in together, get their get your children thinking about what they've read by writing about it. Um and you know, some other uh tools in the in the writing toolbox might be uh what we call a commonplace notebook. So this is this is a really old tradition, and it was uh a habit maintained by some of the brightest minds. And it's just a repository of memory. So I I encourage and require my children when they they come across a really interesting passage, um, or it might be just beautifully written. Well, you're gonna record that in in your commonplace notebook, and you want to cite it where you got it, uh, the book title and author, and then also the page number. And then sometimes, not every time, they might write their own thoughts about that passage, what was meaningful to them. And of course, as Christian parents, having them write um either you know a single verse or an entire chapter of scripture can be really uh in um instructive for them. And so um you you might actually assign them to write in an entire book of of scripture. In fact, this was uh this was the training of kings in ancient Israel. Before they became a king, they they had to actually hand copy the entire uh Torah. And so that that's kind of instructive for us as um homes Christian, you know, Christian homeschooling parents. Get them to copy um uh scripture and other good works, right? Other other fine literature so that they get really an appetite for and a hand on um on good writing. And then very quickly, just arithmetic. Um it's another way of thinking, it's another mode of thinking that's not linguistic, that numerical thinking um that's required by both arithmetic, algebra, uh trigonometry, calculus, that is really a beautiful way of thinking and coming to uh contemplate um all creation, which can be um which is you know in in many ways uh numerical, it's mathematical in all its um facets. And so this is something that we want our children to be able to do. And it's not just practical, but of course it is. Um so you know, those are the three ways that um independent study or independent learning in our family looks. And then it could look that same way, and it's as as simple in in your family as it is in ours when it comes to independent study. Just get them reading, writing, and and doing arithmetic.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's great.

Reading Writing Arithmetic Without Silos

SPEAKER_03 49:51

So let's go on to some of the uh the reality check of some of the challenges that we actually face when trying to apply these things. So, you know, there's uh projects that happen on the farm, and there's uh, you know, hospitality or events that happen, or there's, you know, all those kind of flows and rhythms of the the seasons on the homestead that uh make it a little bit less predictable at times. And what does a normal day look like? It's is sometimes uh all over the place. So how do you maintain consistency? How do you not get discouraged or kind of fall? Like so many times my wife and I have written the lists, we've looked at things, we've done stuff, and then you just kind of, oh yeah, come back six months later. There's those that find it in a drawer somewhere, you know? What happened to that? Um, what are some encouragements for folks that uh are working on trying to do that, like that? Like struggle with that.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

You bet. Like I'd say, you know, two things. One to the discouraged, that is no good homeschooling, homesteading parent thinks he's doing it well. He thinks she's doing it well. So you're in really good company. And if that is you, if you find yourself discouraged or overwhelmed or intimidated by homeschooling and homesteading, I would say in the history of the church, uh the the best of um the best of the wisdom of the church is that really repentance is daily. That is to say, um, you know, um we we all recognize that in our ambition to get get better, be better, um uh we often fall short. And um and and and so the wisdom of the church is um that's really good. Like in fact, um Jesus says the ideal human is one who is poor in spirit and uh who mourns and who hungers um for righteousness. And and and so if you find yourself discouraged because you're just you're just not um you're not doing it the way you had hoped, or you're not the person that you had wished you'd become. Well, you're you're actually in really good company with the church because this is the kind of thing that we um the uh the church fathers especially encourage, and that is repentance daily. And and paired with that, I would also say um remember that um you know uh Christ's mercy is super abundant. As much as he would encourage you to repent always, when there is repentance, he is he smiles to forgive. So um even though you may be discouraged by your failures, uh make that um make your failure an opportunity to remember uh the love and mercy of Christ, which is always available. So that's a discouraged. Um, but I would also say, you know, how how do you manage to do it all, especially when there are a thousand distractions? And I think that's a common temptation. Uh equipment breaks, the the pigs got out um a second time today. And um uh and you know, uh we we tell we like to tell this story one week uh we had to butcher butcher our cow, which we um we dubbed milk dud because she wasn't producing any. And that same week we lost 70 chickens and then we burned three three acres of our farm. And so, you know, what do you do with that when you know you th you make a thousand mistakes and your farming, you know, your homesteading enterprise is just not going as it should. Well, th I guess this is what I would say. Um do not allow yourself to believe that these things are distractions from homesteading or or from homeschooling rather, from discipling your children. Instead, um understand them as opportunities. And Noah, it seems that you you prefer this kind of language too. So um and I can't remember where, but C. S. Lewis kind of share these this similar sentiment that um don't don't assume that um anything that God um ordains is a distraction from what he would have you do. But it's the thing that um he's given you um an opportunity to to learn from, and not just you, but also your children. So say uh say you have a drought, you've lost your crops. Well, make that an opportunity to learn about meteorology. Or maybe maybe you are building a pond. Uh and so make that um the occasion that you and your children learn about hydrology, right? Uh if your tractor breaks down, include your children in its repairs so that again, they're developing a skill set that they can take off farm, right? Whether they become homesteaders or not. So um assume that everything that happens every day is for uh the the education of your children as well as for the um improvement of your farm, even if it means taking three steps back, right? So um, yeah, I I know it can be discouraging um and distractions abound, but remember um uh the love of Christ is um uh abundant and um and you know you are learning as much as your children, and then they need to see you both repent as well as as learn because that's the lifestyle you want to impart to them.

Chaos On The Farm As Curriculum

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, I think it's it's interesting to see that a lot of Jesus' ministry opportunities when he was just you know basically modeling and discipling for his disciples and and showing us what it looks like to you know live in a way that uh pleases the Father, a lot of them were all distractions or like interruptions from what he was apparently you know going to do. It's uh is on the way here, doing this, and and so we shouldn't be surprised. We do want to recognize, you know, when it's my flesh or the something else distracting me from what God wants to be doing, but often if we pray and ask God, it's pretty clear where where our heart is in those moments. And uh it's it's it's great to maintain that humility. I think for us, the um one of the things that's been really important, and I would love to just encourage our listeners with this and they get some of your input from it because your family dynamics are a little bit different than ours. But I think the the unity of the husband and wife in the education of the children, and especially when you're doing something like homesteading and your lives are so interconnected in in real life things, uh, there is a degree of unity that is is much more important um to maintain, to have that vision, to understand how that works. And for us, there's a lot of um we found that for my wife and I really taking those times to talk, to meet, to pray together. Um, we were up a lot later than we planned last night because we were going over kind of a noob schedule for this kids' school for the morning because we're juggling eight kids from pre-readers up to high school and like how do we address the needs each day. So uh, but that that communication between husband and wife, we found has been really, really crucial to just take that time, to be on the same page, to keep working on stuff together. We're really trying to capitalize on meal time together because we we try to eat uh uh most of our meals together. And those discussions, those narrations, what have you learning? How do you learn what did you learn in school today? Or you know, using that to talk about what we read earlier and go into uh what does the Bible say about that? Do we agree with that person's position, you know, in the midst of you know, kids needing a drink of water and you know, everything else that goes on at the table. Um, but that's something that I feel like I've really I think there's so much uh so many times you see dads not very involved in the homeschooling of the children. And you see a lot of situations as well where the the women or the the mom, the wife is very interested in the homesteading and not the the dad. Um and I'm also curious, you know, so so that's so that's what I've been I've found that coming into that where I'm trying to take ownership, like, look, God's giving me this responsibility. I can't just be checked out and say, you got it. You know, like there's a degrees of delegation that we can have as we're working together as a team, but uh but the Lord, but especially as our kids are getting older and they need those discussions and they need that input, and it's not just teaching them their ABCs, but it's teaching them, like you said, how do you how what do we think about what does the Bible say about slavery or whatever kind of issue we may be talking about? Um, really trying to engage more in that lead. Um, I had to turn off my screen a second ago because my one of my kids was like, what do I do next on the project list ad? You know, I'm like, okay, oh yeah. So let me tell you what to do next. Um, but taking that leadership as a really and finding out, like you said, the different roles, how we work, where I'm I'm trying to to uh make sure that we we are each setting each other up for success. Where I'm like, what do you need? You know, my wife for the home, what do you need for that? What do you need for the schooling? She's like, what do you need for this? How how can the older kids help you with what's happening on the homestead? Or what how do we plan all these things? Is is something that is uh if we're not working together well on that, we don't have the same page, we don't understand how those roles work well, then it doesn't really uh it doesn't really function.

Marriage Unity And Dynamic Roles

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

And uh so what kind of things have have you seen? I'd love to just kind of get some of your perspective because I've never really thought about that idea of stay-at-home dad. And because I normally think as I think when I also think of what I truly believe, I think, what am I teaching my kids? And just to be honest, like I wouldn't would would not at this point in time say biblically, yes, I would encourage, you know, say that was an option that I would encourage my sons to consider. But I'm open to like I would love to hear your perspective on both how you view that more and how that works as far as your wife and you working together to be a team as y'all homestead and homeschool.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. So my background.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

I I come from um very conservative um Christian enclave in which um we we were discipled in um a more static complementarianism, to which I still I still subscribe as I think I mentioned earlier. That is, I I truly believe that um the the husband and father is primarily responsible for uh providing for, protecting, leading his family, and and the wife and mother um nurturing and supporting uh her husband and her children. And um and so I never would have thought if you had if you had told me ten years ago, your life is going to be living on a farm and you're going to be homeschooling uh the the children. I never would have uh I that to me would have been unbelievable. And you know, quite frankly, you know, I sometimes I I still I still wonder and wrestle with privately, and not necessarily out loud until I just um broadcasted it on your podcast, Noah, that I I still wrestle with whether or not my complementarianism had been compromised. But at least the way that in my mind it has been um uh still observed in what I call a more dynamic complementarianism. And that is um, you know, I am I am uh trained as an educator, and it's what interests me most. And my wife um she would say, not I would not say that she would not do as well a job. Um and and and so and also uh she she her um income potential is much more than mine. Not to say that that justifies the arrangements, right. Uh but um in short, we wouldn't be able to afford um a farm if I were working as even a school administrator, because as we all know, it's not a well-paid position, right? You really take a vow of poverty despite where you might be teaching. Um all to say, like, how then does um, you know, um how do we in these arrangements, um, how do I lead, provide, and um protect and she nurture and support? Well, um, you know, I I um I I still earn an income, it's just not as much. And then also, you know, we see that really farming is also a vocation. And so um it um we we uh we we see that raising and educating the children on the farm to to learn the the enterprise of homesteading um is a way for me to provide and protect um and lead the children. Um and um and and she also comes into support um by teaching them particular disciplines and also imparting wisdom that she has that I don't. To the more I think um common arrangement that, you know, the the mother stays home to homeschool and the father often either works um on farm or perhaps has um you know dual vocation, work working off farm even. Um I would I would encourage the dad who's not involved uh in homeschooling to choose at least uh maybe maybe not a maybe maybe a discipline, maybe a discipline that interests him, history or mathematics or literature. Um and and he just invests in that way. Um and it doesn't have to be daily, even, because often um the responsibilities of uh uh the father, especially of working off farm, are immense. And so you know, his plate is already full. Adding yet another seems um just uh overwhelming. Um so if that's the case, then maybe maybe just uh the father signals his investment in homeschooling by at the table taking the lead and asking the questions, all right. What did you and making those connections, not unlike who you mentioned earlier, Nella. That can be a really meaningful way for a father first to signal his his support, second to model um learning by uh asking good questions and listening carefully, which are also skills that we want to impart to our children. And then also helping them make connections to other things because he has a body of knowledge um and wisdom to impart to them. And that might be the opportunity he has because he's already with them. Otherwise, why not make the table an opportunity for robust conversation and the dad can take the lead in that effort?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, I appreciate your honesty in that. I think it's we all are wrestling in understanding what it really looks like to uh to be family in a way that isn't just defined and dictated by the industrial model where everybody's got a little label and it's put certain places because. You know, there's a lot of elements of income that I give up to be able to produce value on the farm for our family directly. It's not measured on a balance sheet, you know. And I joke with people like my wife. If I counted up what she does on the on the home and farm and all that, there's no way that I could ever make as much money as I'd have to pay somebody to do what she does. You know, so as far as like what she's bringing in. And then, you know, have sometimes those can things could produce revenue, which have in the past different seasons when they were when we had uh younger kids, she would do baking. And but just understanding it's less, I think sometimes we take this view of uh, well, I'm providing as the husband, and then you've got the education, you know, just go for it. Whatever you do, I'm fine with it, just cool. And and I think I've at times in the past kind of had that with my wife, not intentionally that way, but have failed to sit down and be like, she's like, I need some leadership on what we're doing here. Like I'm teaching and read, write, and whatever, but I need to know that I'm not bearing the brunt of the responsibility that if the kids turn out, you know, bad, then I'm like, well, honey, I ask you to educate them, you know? And she's like, you know, but helping to say, no, look, look, I I'm gonna let let's see what we're doing, let's talk about it. Let me let's be on the same page here so that I'm not just checking out and giving that all to her uh because I've I've got the provision part down, but understand that a household and the dynamics of historically what a you know, everybody in the household is productive. And as the yes, the the wife um can bear the children and does the nurturing and all that, but that doesn't mean that the husband is not really important. And just I think acknowledging the fact that there's a battle that we've got to fight to reclaim what God really expects of us in our families and the humility to understand that none of us have figured it out and that we need to continue to be on that journey and let our kids see that as well. That was one of the things that helped me so much with my dad uh and what he did to mentor us. He uh went off to a job every day, um, but he would take time before he left work and read this every evening. And but he also included us in the as they we were doing crazy things of uh ways that we would do education or what we did or didn't do compared to the people around us. Um, we saw his wrestling with the Lord. You know, we understood that it's not like he would close doors and come out, this is what we're doing. It was like, I'm just what do y'all think? What do we think the Lord wants us to do? And it it really helped us to um to see the importance of that relationship with the Lord and understand the humility that's needed to actually follow and become the kind of people that God wants us to become. And it's when we ever think we've arrived that we uh are no longer walking in light of the gospel, really, which is the reality of our brokenness and our need to continually turn back to Christ. And uh, but I just encourage everybody out there as you think about homeschooling and homesteading, the one of the biggest issues that we see is that uh foundation of the marriage, that Satan just targets that time and time again. And we want to really uh make sure that in focusing on the kids, that we don't neglect or uh fail to appreciate how important the behind the scenes teamwork of the parents is um, because it really will be that that element. I think maybe you said that it's we have to become who we want our children to become. Right. And if and and what we model in our marriage, what we model in our work life, what we model in our spiritual life. We can't, my wife and I were convicted that we were writing a long list for the kids. This is what we want for the kids. And they were like, wow, we got a lot to work on if we're even gonna try to you know be a model of this. So let's start there first, and really helps to put that into perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

Yeah. Homeschooling, yeah. Homesteading and homeschooling will make you an honest parent. Recognize that what you want your children to become, you have to be, just as you say, Noah. A practical suggestion that pairs well, I think, with your sentiments is a family meeting. And by that I don't mean something that's overplanned so much that it becomes a labor or even a burden for parents.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

No gavel or anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

Yeah, well, I I do encourage the gavel, right? Yeah. Okay, good. So yeah, yeah, sands the gavel, right? I I think you know, if if a family meeting, it could be as short as 15 minutes, wherein might you might read just a brief passage of scripture, talk about it together, you pray as a family, and then also a family meeting can be instrumental in revisiting again a mission or vision statement if you have one for your family. But then also just as a as a family, um talking about uh decisions um that concern the family as well as the homestead, wherein parents get to out their process um the ways that they go about making decisions, and not just uh good decisions, but also bad decisions, because we need to model for our children how to how to learn from making really poor decisions. And and so th this is um, I think um a really helpful and practical instrument that we can use as parents to train our children what it means to to go about um being an adult that they wouldn't otherwise see because we never really let them behind the curtain. And so um, I I think doing that as a family and getting their input too, because we often undersell our children and the wisdom that they actually might be able to contribute to those discussions. Some of our best ideas have actually come from our children. And so d don't fail to include them in that discussion.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:05

Yeah, even when we built, we when we were going through the process, my dad, when I was younger, of potentially buying the land that now I've built a home on and stuff. Um, I remember the family meeting where we sat down and he gave us all a sheet of paper and said, What do you think it should look like that we're what we're looking to buy? You know, and we all wrote down our things. And so we felt a lot of ownership in that. And the same thing if you're doing a schedule or you're doing whatever, if you if you have that buy-in, that ownership where it feels like a team with leadership, right? And with direction, but that talking about it is is so, so important. And uh that even though he was working each day every evening, I mean, we read no matter what how late it was, we would read together before bedtime. And that's something we've been able to continue ourselves. That I don't think we really realize how much of an impact just that simple act has. And and in the planning meetings, my kids will be like, Are we gonna meet? I want to know what's happening, I want to know what's going on. Because especially as you get more and they get older, they want, they don't want to just know minute by minute, they want to know what the plan is, you know, what the vision is. And and I think that's helpful for me because sometimes I'm like, it's a good question. I'm not sure. Let me go think and pray about it, and I'll come back and get with you, you know. And that's that's a really great part about it.

Small First Steps That Stick

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

So so for those of us who are wanting to think about growing in not just our normal way of thinking about education and in taking more full advantage of um the homestead and the education of our kids, what are some practical first steps that you would encourage people to think about to kind of uh benefit from some of the things your family has learned over the years? Sure, sure. Um to be sure I understand your question, but um how what's what's a what's the next step that families might take in order to get from um um whatever education model they're using now to something that's more simple and um yeah, we're talking about the just just that idea of how do we move from the overwhelm and the unrealistic expectations to more not only just realistic expectations, but superior expectations that fit more with God's expectations of what he's really looking for, you know, as we approach education. If we want to start making changes, what are a few practical first steps that you would encourage people into?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

Yeah, good. Okay. So um, you know, a really practical first step that's not overwhelming. Um, because if you imagine trying to implement a radically different model of education, then you'll be quickly overwhelmed and you'll probably quit. So it's it's just incremental. I I encourage you to make incremental steps toward adopting a new way of teaching and learning. And and one way to do that, the first step I encourage uh parents to take despite where your children might be in their learning, whether they uh attend a public or private institution, whether a lot of their homeschooling is online, or whether their learning is curriculum heavy. If if you you are dissatisfied with those models and you're looking to make a shift to a more simplistic model, uh what what I'm advocating, I would simply suggest you start with this. Choose one book, one book as a family and read it together, however slowly, and doesn't need to be quickly. Um and it could be a book of scripture, maybe you start there, and as a result, um reading together and discussing what you've read, you are developing a habit and you're trending toward what kind of culture you want to establish in your in your family. And and so um, if say you read a single chapter from the Epistle of James and just talk about what he means and what it should um mean for us as a family, and you make one single incremental change as a result, then you you clearly demonstrate for your children what learning is. That is, um, we we find that there is wisdom that others have to impart, but we look for it. Jack Solomon would suggest you seek after it more than gold. And and then um it it would be a mistake, even as James says, only to leave that wisdom there on the page. And so we need to show our children that um it it's it's more than just uh knowing what's good or true or beautiful. You you have to make a change as a result, and this is kind of what we mean by repentance, right? So make it um decide, okay, if we're reading, you know, um a chapter or even a paragraph from James, what's one thing that we can might do differently? Uh and and so we see authentic learning models and and then from there you just might make incremental changes. Okay, well, um let's just let's dump this composition curriculum and then let's just write about what what um what work of literature we've um we're reading together, you know. Depending on the age of your children, say middle or high school, I suggest if they haven't already, uh read uh Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings. Uh it is the best work of literature. And I'm I would wager in 200, 500 years, it's still going to be read because it is um that good. Um and uh but if you're younger, you have younger children, and uh read some read some picture books and let's just talk about it and get them to draw a picture about what they've what what they've read as kind of a nor a narration. And so just start with um what looks like in miniature authentic learning. Uh children are talking about or writing about what they've read with you uh and and um help them to see how it might influence the way that they ought to live. Um and so another an another practical step is again think of whatever project is ongoing in your farm. Um are you um you know trying to maintain your forest? Are you um having to um butcher your sheep? Are you looking to um you know buy a herd? Well, whatever your project is, involve your children and make them the resident expert on one aspect. Just get them, all right. So um look, John, we we need you to figure out um how to maintain the hydraulics on our tractor. That's your deal. So make it happen uh and teach us how. So give them agency um by making them responsible for something on the farm about which they have to learn, and then also teach, because teaching is the best way of learning, best mo mode. So those are some practical suggestions I would make to parents if they're looking to make this transition. Just choose one book, get talking about it, and then also make your child responsible for something on the farm. Um, and and again, that's related to you know, getting them every day um something to know, some someone to love, and then something to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:29

That's great. Well, I really appreciate uh all your your journey and thoughts and just the challenge for us to think about this really, really important area of education. It's not something we want to put on autopilot because it's it really is just part of our call as Christians to make disciples. And it's something that right now within the church, families failing to pass on real faith to their kids is a huge issue. Failure of people in agriculture to pass on a positive uh experience and uh you know model of agriculture to the next generation is a real challenge. And so I think uh this area just needs much more thought and humble, like you said, poverty of spirit before the Lord to say, we need you, we need you, keep teaching us how to do this, help us not to get comfortable where we're at, help us to understand that we need to uh the that repentance uh all the time in this area as a parent. And I think that that God's looking for us to acknowledge that. It's funny, I was I was praying a few years ago about you know my role as a parent, and I was just like, Lord, please help me to be, you know, for the sake of my kids, a good enough dad that you know they'll turn out well. And I felt like Lord's kind of like right. You know, do you really want how they turn out to be based on how good a dad you are? And I'm like, yeah, that's true. And like, well, help them to like be able to listen. He's like, no, so I was like, okay, Lord, just have mercy on me and have mercy on my kids and help us be faithful to understand that that's ever that's it. That's what David I mean, he he that's what he's like, I don't deserve it, but God's merciful, so I'll still ask for mercy. And I think that's an element that we need to bring is just Lord have mercy on me as a parent because that's all my hope and have my mercy on my kids. And in that, there's not just resigned hope, but there's real hope, authentic miracles that God can do in our hearts and lives. I don't want kids that feel like they don't know how to do stuff or relate to the world at all when they leave my farm. But I I don't want smart kids that uh are prideful and arrogant and all their knowledge and all that. So I'm like, I don't know how to do that balance, but I know God does. And I know that for you guys that are listening, um, I hope this conversation has just been helpful for you to think about what God's speaking to you right now in your life. Um, what are the areas that uh you can be encouraged in? What are the areas that you need to revisit, uh in your family to talk about with your kids, talk about as a couple, and especially talk to the Lord about in terms of how we can make sure that we can stand before the Lord one day and know that we don't have regrets that we just didn't care enough or that we didn't listen to him enough or that we prioritized the wrong set of standards or whatever it is. Um, we're in a battle for the family, for the church, for the hearts and minds of the next generation. And uh let's count the cost, understand that it's it's not easy to count the fact that it's not gonna be messy, it's gonna be messy and all that, but wow, what opportunities we have, especially those of us in agriculture, to um to do things that uh God can work with. You know, we're just setting the stage for the Holy Spirit and let's be faithful, let's be encouraged, and uh and I'm excited to see what God's gonna do in the future.

Where To Connect And Final Prayer

SPEAKER_03 1:23:07

Todd, thank you so much for sharing today. And if uh the they want to learn connect with you, learn more about uh your guys' farm or anything, uh I'll connect the uh some of those documents that you were willing to share in the show notes, but where where can they connect with you?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

Yeah, sure. Yeah, you're most welcome, Noah. Uh we have an Instagram account, St. Mary's Farm, Tennessee. And and then also if anybody's interested in a conversation, um, they can reach me by email and I'll send you a link to my address. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:40

Yeah all right. Well, Ty, would you mind just praying for our listeners as we close out and then we'll wrap up.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

Yeah, most certainly. Yeah, thank you, Noah. Yeah, we we do pray, Father, that you have mercy on us. As uh as parents who uh seek to become uh disciples of Christ and um and make our children so we pray that you would grant us the wisdom, uh, the virtue and the resources to do just that. And we're grateful that you are a um a merciful God, and it's your delight uh to uh bestow on us uh your love and affection, and we pray that we might be uh proper images of this for our for our children, not only for their sake, but for the wider world. So may your kingdom come and in us your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:32

Amen. Amen. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Again, this is Noah Sanders uh with our guest Todd Smith today. And until next time, encouraging you to be faithful, be humble, and to keep redeeming the dirt. God bless.